Frequently Asked Questions

What is the ADK Winter Mountaineering School and who runs it?
Who can I contact for more information?
How do I apply?
Is a family discount available?
What is the cancellation policy?
Is the school primarily for people with winter experience?
What do I need to do to get ready for the program?
What kind of boots do I need?
What are vapor barrier liner (VBL) socks and do I need them?
Do I really need an ice axe and crampons?
Should I bring ski poles?
What do I do for food on the backpacking sections?
What kind of tent is suitable for backpacking sections?
What do I need for a sleeping bag and sleeping pads in backpacking sections?
What about clothing?
Does WMS Facilitate carpooling?

Q: What is the ADK Winter Mountaineering School and who runs it?
A:  The ADK Winter Mountaineering School was started over 50 years ago in a response to a significant increase in the number of young, inexperienced, aspiring mountaineers taking to the mountains during the winter.  The Adirondack Mountain Club (ADK) provided a small operating budget to a dedicated group of instructors to provide instruction on safe climbing and camping during the winter.  Over the years the program has evolved, and for a number of years was run cooperatively with the Appalachian Mountain Club with sections running in both the Adirondacks and White Mountains.  The Winter Mountaineering School has provided instruction for many well-known mountaineers in the Northeast, including a number of authors of popular winter camping books written for the region.  The program is staffed and run by an enthusiastic, all-volunteer pool of instructors who have themselves began as students at the Winter Mountaineering School and therefore all share a common understanding of the winter mountaineering techniques that we teach, as well as the learn-by-doing approach that we use in all of our programs.  Although affiliated with the ADK, an Advisory Committee comprised Winter School instructors manages the program.  The Winter Mountaineering School is a non-profit organization and we work hard to keep our expenses low.  That combined with the fact that our instructors volunteer their time to spend with aspiring winter hikers and backpackers make the ADK Winter Mountaineering School the best value for winter mountaineering instruction in the Northeast.

Q: Who can I contact for more information?
A:  To email us for information on the programs we are running this year click here.  For questions on equipment, click here.  Or call the Adirondack Mountain Club at 518-523-3441.  They will be able to provide you contact information for appropriate Winter School staff.

Q: How do I apply?
A:  Download, fill out, and return the application package.  Alternatively contact the Adirondack Mountain Club at 518-523-3441 to have an application package mailed to you.  The package is somewhat detailed but the information in it is used to ensure that participants are placed in a suitable group, and will help group leaders plan trips that are best suited to the skills and interests of the students in his/her group.  Note that applicants under 18 years of age must have a parent or legal guardian sign the application.  A responsible adult must accompany applicants under 16 years of age.

Q: Is a family discount available?
A:  If two members of the same family attend, a family discount for the second person will be granted.  The discount will be $25 for the weekend programs and $50 for the weeklong programs.  If applicable, please deduct from your total fee.  If one person must cancel, we will refund the discounted rate providing the cancellation was made in time (see the cancellation policy below).

Q: What is the cancellation policy?
A:  Cancellations received on or prior to December 15th will be granted a full refund.  No refunds will be granted for cancellations received less than three weeks before the course starting date or for "no shows.”   Winter Mountaineering School is offered once per calendar year and because of this and the limited space available we are unable to make exceptions to this policy.

Q: Is the school primarily for people with winter experience?
A:  The program is designed for a broad range of individuals - from the beginner with no winter experience to the person with significant winter skills who wants to learn more.  The structure and content of the program and the trips designed to teach the content are adjusted to the needs of the participants.  The questionnaire in the application helps us try to understand what level a person is at and assign them to the appropriate group.  That said, individuals who wish to register for one of the backpacking sections should have some three-season backpacking experience.

Q: What do I need to do to get ready for the program?
A:  The most important thing is to make the decision to attend the Winter Mountaineering School as early as possible.  This will give you ample time to download and read our student handbook, to start evaluating your gear, and definitely to get in shape!  The gear requirements for safe winter travel can be daunting for some.  However, with adequate time you can find deals and/or work out rental or loaner arraignments.  To enjoy Winter Mountaineering School you must arrive in good health and in good physical condition.  Stamina (cardiovascular fitness) and leg strength are essential factors.

Q: What kind of boots do I need?
A:  Our requirements for boots are strict and non-negotiable.  In the Adirondacks we may very well have to contend with rain and slushy snow, followed by rapid and drastic drops in temperature.  We get many, many questions every year regarding the suitability of various boots for our program.  In order to address these We've come up with the following general guidelines - The Winter Mountaineering School Commandments of Footgear.  Please read carefully and fully.

1. No boot, no matter what the manufacturer's claims, is waterproof when it comes to the varying conditions in the Adirondacks.  Frozen boots = frozen feet.  Therefore for overnight backpacking sections, removable boot liners are mandatory, no exceptions.  Removable liners allow boots to be field dried at best and kept from freezing solid at worst.  Also, do not confuse a removable midsole for a removable liner.
2. VBL sock liners (see below for details) are strongly recommended for all sections and are required for over night backpacking sections.  They can be difficult to find.  In a pinch, a pair of bread loaf bags (2-per foot, per day) will work.  Many of us with years of experience have come to realize that even the best of VBLs eventually delaminate and leak so many of us use both the VBL and the bread bags, or two bread bags together.  They are worn between your inner and outer socks.  They work.  Trust us.
3. There has been a great proliferation in "high tech" winter foot gear.  Many manufacturers are making boots similar to the Columbia Buggaboots.  In general they are one-piece construction and lack removable liners.  This type of boot is now considered acceptable for our weekend day hiking section only since they can be kept warm overnight and dried while staying at the Loj.  In general these should have full lacing, heavy lug type soles, full rubber waterproof lowers and may have synthetic or heavily factory water proofed leather uppers.  They must also work with your crampons, gators, and snowshoes.  When in doubt ask.
4. GI issue mouse boots, i.e. the big white ones that make you look like Mickey Mouse, are still acceptable for our purposes for overnight trips.  They are tricky to get to work with most crampons, snow shoes and gators however so try them out first.  Many miles were logged with them in the early years of winter school.  Or you can use...
5. Sorel type pack boots.  But they must satisfy the fist commandment above and have removable liners.  They should have full lacing or an appropriately adjustable closure system, heavy rubber lowers with a lug sole, and synthetic or heavily factory waterproofed leather uppers.  But most instructors now use....
6. Plastic Mountaineering Boots.  These are the most appropriate footgear for our school.  They have some drawbacks, not least of which is their cost but overall they work the best for our overnight backpacking sections.  They are a bit tricky to fit with crampons, snowshoes, and gators so be sure to check out the fit of this gear before arriving at school.  They can be rented at some gear shops, such as EMS in Albany and Lake Placid, and The Mountaineer in Keene Valley.
7. There are, in addition to the boots mentioned here so far, some very sophisticated, very expensive, single leather mountaineering boots available on the market these days.  These boots are made for fast, alpine style ascents up mixed routes and are really made for conditions and terrain we do not have much of in the Northeast.  Most importantly these boots do not satisfy the first commandment above and so, despite their expensive pedigrees, are not acceptable for our overnight backpacking sections.

Q: What are vapor barrier liner (VBL) socks and do I need them?
A:   VBL socks are critical to keep your insulating socks and boot liners dry.  They are required for all overnight backpacking sections and strongly recommended for the dayhike section.  The VBL sock is worn over a thin synthetic or silk liner sock and under an insulating sock.  The liner sock gets wet from your perspiration, but when done properly the insulating sock and boot liner remain bone-dry even after several days of use.  The easiest, most effective VBL socks are simply heavy-duty plastic bags.  You need to use two bags for each foot (one bag used alone will break) and bring extra bags for each day.  You can find suitable bags online (e.g., 5 x 4 x 24 inch bags (Item number UF10G054024) from foodservicedirect.com).  At the end of the day you will need to remove your liner sock and get you foot into a dry sock to avoid trench foot.  The liner sock will either need to be dried or replaced with a fresh one for the next day.  Note that waterproof breathable socks or neoprene booties ARE NOT acceptable since water vapor will pass though and get your insulating layers wet, defeating the purpose of VBL socks.

Q: Do I really need an ice axe and crampons?
A:   Full (10-12 point) crampons are required.  You will simply not be able to go on most trips without them, since under many conditions the group will not be able to summit unless everyone in the party has crampons.  Although some will argue that an ice axe is not a strict necessity for most Adirondack peaks, in many situations it is the best tool for the job.  As a Winter Mountaineering School, we strive to teach skills that will take our students beyond the Adirondacks if they so desire.  We almost always include workshops and practice for proper crampon and ice axe technique in our programs.  How much we actually use them on ascents in any given year depend on snow and ice conditions, but you will leave the program with knowledge of, and experience with, basic ice axe and crampon technique.

Q: Should I bring ski poles?
A:  Unless you are an experienced winter hiker and know that you prefer to travel without poles, we recommend bring collapsible trekking poles.  They provide better stability when starting out on snowshoes, and take a great deal of strain off of the knees on backpacking trips.  Collapsible poles can be stowed when not in use – for example when ascending very steep slopes better suited to proper ice-axe technique.

Q: What do I do for food on the backpacking sections?
A:  For most backpacking sections we encourage the use of freeze-dried or home dehydrated meals that require the addition of hot water only (no simmering).  Meals are re-hydrated in an insulated container that you bring.  We will be boiling a lot of water for drinking and meal preparation, so each group member will be expected to pack in 1.5 to 2 liters of fuel.  For stoves, a collapsible platform and small patch of foam (such as cut from an old sleeping pad) are needed to prevent the stove from melting into the snow.  If you have a stove bring it – we will decide which stoves we will take out with us at base camp.  Consult the student handbook for more information and references on preparing home-dehydrated meals suitable for our program.

Q: What kind of tent is suitable for backpacking sections?
A:  Most three season tents are acceptable for the program.  The less screen in the ceiling of the tent the better, as screening will let in spindrift during snowstorms and allow frost on the fly to fall into the tent.  The group leaders will coordinate among all participants in backpacking sections and determine who has tents and which ones we will take out with us.  If in doubt, bring your tent with you.

Q: What do I need for a sleeping bag and sleeping pads in backpacking sections?
A:  Your sleeping bag should be rated to at least twenty degrees below zero.  It can be either down or synthetic fill.  Down has the advantage of packing smaller and being a superior insulator ounce-for-ounce.  However, down’s insulating properties rapidly decline if it gets wet or damp.  If you bring a down bag we strongly recommend the use of a Vapor Barrier Liner (VBL), especially on longer trips.  The VBL liner will greatly reduce the amount of water vapor that finds its way into your bag and add to the warmth of your bag.  Synthetic fill bags are more bulky to carry, but hold up better in damp conditions.  You must have two sleeping pads – either two closed-cell foam pads or one closed-cell on one self-inflating (e.g., Thermarest) pad.  Two self-inflating pads are not acceptable due to the risk of leaks.  See the student handbook for more information.

Q: What about clothing?
A:  There is too much to cover here – see the student handbook.

Q: Does WMS facilitate carpooling?
A:  Prior to the school we will provide contact information for all students to facilitate carpooling.  For information about commuter parking lot locations click on the state of interest below.  If not listed, check that state's DOT website.

New York
New Jersey
Massachusetts
Vermont
New Hampshire
Pennsylvania
Connecticut
Maine

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